Transcript: Second Presidential Debate

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washingtonpost.com: Second Presidential Debate — President Bush and Sen. John Kerry
Washington University, St. Louis, Mo.
October 8, 2004

Links to a transcript of the second presidential debate between between President Bush (R) and Sen. John F. Kerry (D). The moderator of the nationally televised debate is Charles Gibson of ABC News. The questions came from an audience of “soft” voters selected by the Gallup polling organization.

[Includes annotated fact checking. See also:]

FactCheck.org Cheney & Edwards Mangle Facts
Example: Bush forgets he owns a tree-growing company.

Both candidates played loose with the facts at the second Presidential Debate in St. Louis Oct. 8. Bush claimed Kerry’s health-care plan would lead to rationing and “ruin the quality of health care in America,” a claim unsupported by neutral experts. Kerry claimed the Bush administration had forced the Army Chief of Staff to retire for pushing to send more troops to Iraq, but in fact he retired on schedule.

We offer a sampler of the dubious and sometimes false statements made by each of the candidates.

The 2nd Presidential Debate

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I suppose the big news after the 2nd Presidential debate is that Duhbya didn’t do nearly as badly — huzzah! The guy goes in with the lowest expectations and ‘does well’ by surpassing those very, very low expectations.

I wonder what Kerry says in Bush’s ear at the start of each debate. Duhbya doesn’t seem to speak first.

Things that caught my attention in real time:

Early on, Bush uses Cheney’s line about Kerry/Edwards becoming anti-war in response to Howard Dean. Must have tested well in focus groups.

Bush: “a lot of pressures” (ie, “It’s hard work!” — some pundit noted earlier that he had never heard any president complain about the work. Let’s retire Bush and let him rest at the ranch (oh, wait, he already does that)).

Bush: “That answer almost made me want to scowl.” His well rehearsed week-late retort to what everyone saw for themselves in the first debate.

Bush: said something about rumors on “the internets” — this year’s version of not having a clue about the cost of a gallon of milk.

Bush: “brand drugs”

Bush: “I went to Washington to fix problems…. I went to get something done.” Boy, did he.

Kerry responded with real empathy a few times, accurately identifying the feeling behind two questions. He did his best to respond to a young woman who may be opposed to abortion rights. Yes, his answer was long and thoughtful, but sincere and right. Bush comes back with ‘I’m still trying to decipher that’ — well, he’s none too bright.

Bush cited the Dredd Scott case as an example of a judicial decision that would disqualify a nominee from the Supreme Court. Boy, that’s a relief.

When it comes time to nominate two to four people to the Supreme Court, who do you think will actually have read some (all) of the decisions the nominees wrote: Kerry/Edwards or Bush/Cheney.

The late killer question to Bush: list 3 (!!!) errors you’ve made and what you’ve done to fix them. (“3”, just in case he actually prepped after his astonishing flub at an earlier press conference). With his knee twitching oddly, he said he knows “what they’re usually talking about” (Iraq). “They”? I wonder how the questioner felt with this implication that this wasn’t her own question. And, he did it again: he listed the things that weren’t mistakes (in his mind only — so, maybe this was actually the right answer). Finally, in a twisted effort at admitting fallibility, he said he made a mistake appointing some people (O’Neill, no doubt — not Rumsfeld or Rice, certainly), but he wouldn’t embarrass them on TV. Yeah, right. Better he should embarrass himself and the entire nation.

We do see clearly: a man for whom everything is simple and one who appreciates complexity. One who does everything by his gut and one who uses his mind. One who is president of the Evangelical Christian Nation of America, and one who would try to represent all, even a damned atheist like me.

If you didn’t see this debate and IF you buy any spin that it was a Bush win, god help us. mjh

ps: the ‘townhall’ format worked better than I expected; these seemed like real people with real concerns that most of us can relate to.

Dick Flips & Flops

dangerousmeta!

Blast from the past; a quote from Dick Cheney in 1992:

And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam Hussein worth? And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait [in 1991], but also when the president made the decision that we’d achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.”

Little Lies, so many lies

NewMexiKen: Oops oops!

[F]rom Marshall —

In a rather churlish moment, Cheney told Edwards that the two of them had never met before tonight’s debate, despite the fact the Edwards is a serving senator and Cheney’s the body’s presiding officer.

But as Atrios and no doubt many others have now pointed out, one can easily find a citation on the web of a prayer breakfast the two men attended together in February 2001. And the Dems are already circulating a picture from the event showing the two standing right next to each other.

Update: According to Dan Froomkin, AP has identified three meetings:

• “On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event. …

NewMexiKen: Does he think people won’t check?

“Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I’m up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they’re in session.” — Vice President Cheney during debate last night.

Actual fact: In nearly four years Cheney has presided on just two Tuesdays (out of 127).

Furthermore, Edwards has presided twice during that time also.

Info via Kos.

[links are to NewMexiKen, who pulls several cites together (thanks!)]

NM Early Voting Sites

Early Voting Sites

Early Voting begins October 16, 2004 and ends October 30, 2004.
Early Voting Sites are Closed on Mondays.
Hours of Operation: Tuesday through Friday 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 pm.
Saturdays 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
County Clerk’s offices are open Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
The County Clerk Offices will be opened on Saturday, October 30, 2004 ONLY.

Blogs don’t always start dialogue

Column:Blogs don’t always start dialogue By Manuelita Beck

The medium, with its emphasis on linking, is perfect for spreading the word. Many blogs not only link to other sources within their posts, they also feature links to similar blogs – which is where I see a bit of a problem. …

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems as if the political debate in this country is getting more polarized. People don’t just politely disagree anymore – they almost violently dispute every factoid. I don’t remember this level of loathing in the October before the last presidential election.

Despite being a forum for opinion exchange, there’s actually very little communication going on.

Manuelita-

I’m a blogger. This isn’t a flame, just a response to share a piece of my perspective.

On the one hand, I’m as sad as anybody that things are so polarized. And I don’t mean to deny my part in that.

On the other hand, part of what I want to do in some of my blogs (I have 4 and host several others) is to connect people to information they may not otherwise see. In and of itself, that’s not too sinister. Some of us are paying very close attention to things that most others are not (or are even actively ignoring). My blogs are ripples in a larger wave of information, spreading information.

At the same time, my views are quite obvious. I do try to encourage others to express themselves; and I do read views I disagree with (like Alex Hughes).

It is very interesting to be part of the Internet and Web. Each of us has an opportunity to reach all of us AND to hear from all of us — there have been small scale versions of this (any small gathering), but no universal two-way mechanism before. Some will waste this opportunity, some will screw up, some will abuse it, but it does seem to be changing the way we live, learn and communicate.

peace, mjh

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." — Sam Adams